Opinion: I think the best way any new MMO or RPG can innovate is by making DPS not so foundational to the entire design of the game

But that would require so many resources making a variety of content and mechanics/systems that don't have to do with damage that I can understand why nobody does it

April 04, 2026 - 22:38 UTC

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Honestly I loved the idea Wildstar toyed with. Having everyone pick a "role" completely unrelated to their class that determined fun objectives you did in the world with unique benefits. Like settling little depots for buffs, soldier if you just liked fighting, exploration for parkour, etc.
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You wouldn't even have to do the latter, if you have a more complicated damage model than hitpoints.

E.G. I play Battletech, and the locational damage and crit model leads to concepts such as hole-punching, backstabbing, crit-seeking, and head-capping that are faster than sanding the armor off.
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Actually, doesn't Monster Hunter kinda count? I thought the emphasis on materials meant you had to hit precisely, at least in some iterations.
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having a morale system that could lead to enemy surrender/retreat would be neat. Also having abilities/spells that remove enemies from combat (kinda like bg3 pushing into chasms)
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I think the best way is for the developers to stop being cowards and make them turn based.
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I don’t play mmo’s so this is just a shot in the dark: maybe it could be handled by making dps have a greater logistical cost? Like it takes expensive consumables for them to act at their peak and they’re actually worse as dps than some other classes that can better regen their features w/out them?
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Like say you have a warrior a healer and a tank in a really long dungeon you have to complete in one go. The warrior needs a consumable, let’s call it “dragon’s blood”, to fight optimally; use more damaging attacks, evade enemy attacks and have a higher base health. Dragon blood is a super rare…
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An objective being a number is a very straightforward way to track progress of any kind, so "[HP] to 0" is a very simple solution. The rest is just creating obstacles in the way of that. Even if DPS isn't initially the primary objective, it will be a natural point for improvement.
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Something like Destiny raiding is creating the obstacle of "solve this puzzle under fire," and that's more or less what high tier raiding tries to do as well, but those fights also resolve with DPS once mechanics are a more solved issue.
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Something like the status effect system starcrawler uses could be interesting-
Buffs and debuffs there are both genuinely important, and you have the tradeoffs of leaving them up vs exploiting them for a burst of damage/extra effects that removes em in the process..
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It reminds me of the problem in Skirmish and Wargames where they naturally devolve into fire fights or melee brawls. The way they fix it is other objectives like capturing points, escorting noncombatants, other scenario specific things. But transfering that idea to a video game seems... difficult.
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Deltarune and Undertale technically have different win conditions, but they still boils down to "survive until X happens." Which is the same as HP hitting zero. Maybe we could do a timer or something? Damage is consistent, instead all abilities are based around survival. Tank, Healer, Disruptor.
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Personally, I advocate for a system where characters are given the option prestige back to first level, and encouraged to do so, so that 1) endlessly re-running the same handful of raids for marginal gear increases is not the expected endgame, and 2) new content isn't a jenga tower of power creep.
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DPS will always be "foundational" so long as MMOs are combat centric. The best you can do is minimize min/maxing as a subgame and focus on other aspects of combat.

imo, for most mmo players, DPS isn't that foundational: it's solved and the game is focused around encounter mechanic execution.
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For example, FFXIV is at the point where doing "good enough" damage is relatively simple; encounters are much more about positioning and situational awareness than making the dps check. Failing the dps check is a consequence of poor execution more often than not.
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I’d love to see more RPGs & MMOs where progression is less tied to “kill X bears, collect their tails”.

Actually, I’d say Collection objectives are the bane of any online game
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I agree there- only thing I can come up with as an alternative is "go here, do X, come back" kind of quests though. Hard to think of anything else.
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Have you ever played Monster Racher 2?

I think it had an interesting system that was kinda halfway between real time and turn based. Where you could spam attacks but only if you had the energy for it and even then it makes it easier to counterattack the less guts your monster has.
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i don't know how they can make it possible i think. no matter how much content an mmorpg makes, it always points to the holy grail of big numbers as the goal. it would be fun to find an mmorpg like this though.
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bsky.app/profile/jocat.net/post/3mipcng32ec2t
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Gonna drop a lukewarm take that we have all of this because of how much the RPG genre lifted from combat-focused TTRPG systems (and they got it from wargames). And we have been iterating on these for decades, so most of the RPG folks aren't sure how to break the mold.
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I hope that we will get an influx of designers that grew up on narrative focused systems and i really want to see what they can come up with.

We know that audience is there for this from the start (OG charisma and pacifist fallout runs and up to modern bg3 content)
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This'll probably be controversial but I just want an MMO with good graphics. I'm not talking about the realism crap so many games do nowadays, I just want one that's high quality and isn't looking like the Switch Pokemon games in quality.
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I love love LOVE support classes for exactly this reason. More satisfying than dealing big damage is turning the battlefield into my own tactical game (I never claimed to be good at said tactical game). Or just skills that let me steal items heh
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The original secret world did it pretty well, like sure combat was a Good part of it but arguably the most important part were the puzzles and investigation quests.
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The gamers yearn for the good 5% of Destiny
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I hate how correct you are with this 😭
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Not only that, you'd be catering to a specific crowd who would especially prefer to play an MMO or RPG that doesn't follow that foundation, which is very few and far between compared to the larger portion of players who like to hit things for fun.
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I always wanted to play a pure support class in an MMO. Deals zero damage, does zero healing, squishy. Not sure such a thing ever existed or if it would even be possible to make it fun to play.
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big number go brr mostly
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I think there's a delicate balance there. If a game makes systems like healing/buffing, aggro, or crowd control/debuffing too important it leads to situations where the people who gravitate towards DPS start to complain that their optimal performance is too reliant on the skills of other players
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Lots of games have side systems for solving problems without relying strictly on combat, which does mitigate the strict importance of DPS. But implimenting that in a multiplayer environment can lead to problems. If either system is better than the other then the player base will be at odds.
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As simple as it sounds, I have been dreaming as of late for an RPG all about keeping party members alive as a tank. While it would just become damage negation per second I just want to aura farm like in Wilds with stalwart guard.

Maybe an rpg more about party rotation and stamina management.
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MMOs are so expensive and risky to make that innovation is really stifled.
Things like dodging/parrying/coordination etc could be used to such higher degree but it's just too risky.
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This is one reason I really enjoyed boss battles in FF: Brave Exvius. For the weekly/monthly challenges you could seldom get by by just attacking, you NEEDED a tank, or a healer, a supporter, etc. Sometimes you needed all of them, sometimes 2 or 3, and buffs and debuffs were so essential too.
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Especially since there's so many expectations setup around making number go up. Having non-combat options contribute feels like a start but people will almost definitely optimize the way to making dps king, just in a more roundabout way
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Just need to design levels and objectives that don't have anything to do with DPS, like traversal or a long lasting block/mitigation/stalling check or some kind of stealth segment, but like I said all these ideas need their own fleshed out system, and that takes money and time

But not impossible
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Competitive fashion hunter
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I can probably count on less than one hand, the number of fights in WoW that are healer focused instead of dps focused.

I can only actually remember one [Dreamwalker in ICC, Wrath].
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DPS should be tied to your HP so that Healing becomes more important, making cleric roles more valuble.
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Recently, I've had this idea of combat being more reactive, where you alternate between offensive and defensive abilities. Make it more like a real fight, where you actively defend against attacks and find / create openings to get in a satisfyingly impactful strike.
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Instead of blindly copying existing combat mechanics, stop and ask yourself, what would fighting *actually* be like in this world? How would you imagine group combat or taking down a large monster in a cutscene? Take that mental image and do what you can to create that feeling in gameplay.
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It's why I love the fights that require players to use items around the arena.
Transform into creatures to avoid damage or move platforms and dangers around.

Some of my favorite encounters in MMOs are those that make you stop doing DPS.
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I kinda wonder if "fun with friends" coop games could provide some design space for that (thinking Peak specifically rn). Having an MMO where non-combat cooperation is essential for quest/dungeon/raid progression is a fun idea.
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The recent boom in cooperative games about doing mostly non violent tasks has been great.
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Absolutely.

I played wow for years. I'm recently starting to get back into ESO. I've played dozens of other MMO's & you're right that both the culture of the games & the gameplay itself leans so heavy into a need for DPS.

I'd love something that rewards varied/different playstyles.
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The problem with no dps is really one of requirements. If you don’t put in a dps check, any encounter is trivialized by sufficient healing and tanking.
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Older RPGs had more of this, solving a dungeon in OG WoW back in the day was more about using your toolkit to manage enemies rather than optimal rotations but as players found optimization that game ended up having to shift to keep things challenging for the players. FFXI was a similar situation.
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Technically speaking, isn't it what Undertale/Deltarune do?

The ability to fight without inflicting damage until you can "Mercy" the enemy? I wonder if that could be applied on a larger scale?

Like the Suzaku DDR phase during Stormblood 😆
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would love a class/classes that're about talking down the opponent, but logically that would immediately clash with damage dealing. something that maybe still has the HP bar and numbers but it represents Hubris Points or something clever.
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kinda like how xiv crafting is a battle against your items and stamina. we could pvp by sharing "quips" and "comebacks" or even "your mother jokes" that we can of course customize with flavor text.
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Possibly a stagger gauge then for the Hubris Points? That class can specifically keep the boss staggered and slows down enrage without engaging directly with the boss mechanics. But this doesn't feel quite right...
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Have two HP bars. Health (for people who WANT dps) and will to fight for those who would rather be pacifist. Maybe give different rewards depending on how you beat them (the more I talk the more it sounds like Undertale)
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That makes it sound like your next post is going to be "Anyway, I'm working on a new game"
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I couldn’t agree more which is why it stinks that RPGMMOs, at the very least the current top, unfortunately do suffer for a need to deliver for every player. The more complex/varied the mechanics the less everyone can universally do it.

Though personally that inherently MAKES games more interesting
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Especially in a massively multiplayer scale. I think the differences between classes and jobs could make for a fascinating social loop. If I can’t do X but Excel at Y then I need to rely on you to provide X while I supply Y.

If everyone brings something unique to the table we need to interact to
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I love the idea of Mechanics First.

Two of my favorite fights in WoW were Heigan (having to dance around the room) and Shade of Aran in Kara (timing interrupts and watching for blizzard). Neither felt like a dps race to me, both were just "dont mess up"
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It's not an MMO but I loved how Deep Rock Galactic's 4 classes all have defensive and traversal abilities that help the whole group, none of them are purely DPS only meant to kill, the Gunner for example is the only one with a shield so he's the best at reviving people in a bad spot.
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The Scout is fast and great at clearing small enemies but he's also the best at getting hard to reach objectives and can illuminate large areas. Digger digs and that's invaluable in many missions. Engineer creates platforms to traverse easier and turrets for safe zones. Everyone has utility!
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I am curious how that'd work. Because I'm guessing you mean focused damage dealers, and not "damage per second". I'd say maybe make it about puzzles/figuring things out with a team? Like a much bigger form of "We Were Here"?
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think the problem is that its fully ingrained as a whole core mechanic as a means to get through obstacles. even stemming from tabletop games that served as an inspiration. lately I would like to see RPG's and MMO's lean more on worldbuilding and the adventure rather than the more action combat.
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Reminded of Rift where the default party makeup was tank, healer, dps x2, support, because support was an actual role

and then the support would just swap to their DPS spec once they get into the dungeon because it was faster
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this is why I miss Wildstar
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The focus on combat in games in general is one I'm constantly thinking about subverting. So, so much of gaming is "destroy stuff" wrapped in differing paper depending on the genre.

Use accurate mouse click to destroy stuff. Use tactics to destroy stuff. Use teamwork to destroy stuff. On and on.
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If it's not that, it's collecting stuff.
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Would probably help if so many things weren't solved with 1 player, leaving the rest to do nothing but DPS.

"Kite this monster", 1 dude.

"Craft potions", 1 dude.

"Portal the group to far far away,", 1 dude.

Weird to say, but need to nerf the special characters so more people have to do them?
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Procedural generation would help a lot too. Once a map is "solved", all the explore type abilities are done.
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RPG where you’re a vigilante, but you don’t have superpowers.

Gameplay is mainly around stealthing through enemy bases to get clues that let you talk them down, and the using them in a logical way to do so, before turning them over to the authorities.

Honestly would be pretty sick to do.
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Puzzle Pirates attempts this by having every task, even combat, be expressed through puzzle game. There's an argument that higher quality items can boost your chances in a sword fight, but I've heard of people surviving just fine with the stick.
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Just make regular over world enemies an actual threat so you have reason to try a tank or healer, and maybe don't male "tough" enemies just giant health sponges.
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Even just in terms of combat design, eliminating the notion of damage as a role would open up so much space.
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The reason I think a lot of MMOs evolved towards DPS-centric gameplay and spread-stack-dodge-the-AoE boss design, is that traditional RPG systems (tanks, healing, diverse abilities) are way too easily solved by their playerbases
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The optimal strategy for overcoming any given challenge is instantly mathed out by the playerbase and widely dispersed through the internet

Assuming it's a group challenge, you are then expected to study and perform these strategies so you don't hold others back from getting the loot they want
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Open-world RPG where combat is quick, brutal, and deadly. So the game ignores it in favor of speech, politicing, sneaking, or simply working in a typical profession.

That's what I wanna see in a TTRPG
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It's already been mentioned but I do love that XIV gathering and crafting has its own systems for if you prefer to engage that way. Though as far as combat, I don't necessarily know how you'd redesign that. I SUPPOSE you could have a stealth based class, for example?
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Wildstar, short as it lived and still relying on the holy trinity, I think did well in its raid encounter designs having very interesting and varied mechanics throughout its fights.
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Dang I miss Firefall, open world third person hero shooter MMO. Switching up an MMOs combat from positioning and rotations to maximize DPS to jetpacks, gunplay and class based movement tech in a shooter really made it feel fresh.
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Something like that which leans more into the different class movement options and having quests be A to B deliveries in an open world could be fantastic. Classic "Collect X item" quests suddenly become skill checks depending on where you're supposed to get them.
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What if they just made everything dependent on DPS? Crafting leather armor? Better beat that hide's ass until it takes shape. Healing? Punch the wounds off the tank. Housing? Drop kick a fucking chair into the living room.
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Although sounds very funny, I can imagine that would not have much stying power. You need variety in mechanics, not just in presentation
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Swtor had fights that required puzzle solving and mechanics. Having to have party members kinda play a minesweeper like game to create a path through a mine field or multiple members solve a combination to weaken the boss
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@jocat.net honestly I think WoW and even TERA did a good job of that with classes that did damage by focusing on not doing damage.

On another approach I know SWTOR had a few "puzzle bosses" and I'd love to see more of those.

I can see a few routes they could go with that.
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I think what's most important to the health of an MMO and specifically any given server is an ecosystem of out of combat jobs.

I love how in Vanilla WoW the server community organized around world buffs. People scheduled drops, cleared dungeons, and teleported people around every evening.
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I think Foxhole does this very well. The front line combat is fun but there is a whole logistics network that is built and ran by the players. You can spend an entire war never firing a weapon and still have a major impact on the game.
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I think as long as there is health bars to defeat, people will try to maximize damage per second/turn. Which I think is a good thing. I'm thinking after hp combat the most explored video game system with "conflict" has to be like fishing or crafting right? or maybe conversational convincing?
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Maybe a machanic where the goal is to surround the enemy so they cannot escape, so that a mage can capture/blast them with a spell that is so slow anyone can escape from it?
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Might I recommend Old School RuneScape? There's tons of non combat related stuff to do, and at high levels skilling activities are among the best uses of your time for account progression
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I think you should make the game by starting with everything but the dps, the buffs, the buffers, non man dps debuffers, sustainers, trinkets, modifiers. And then think of some crazy bullshit for the dpses that exploits all that
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I haven't gotten very far at all into Dragon Quest X so I don't know shit about its "endgame" or whatever, but it being pseudo turn-based makes it feel like it's much more about timing and positioning than damage.
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But also I'd love to see an MMORPG that is less about battles and fighting, and more about RP. Kind of similar to that Aneurysm IV game that came out last year. Dunno how its difficulty would naturally scale overtime though because i'm too tupid for that kinda thinking 🙃
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I genuinely believe that mmos should be more about crowd control as a group activity. I miss classic wow where you had to plan each mob.
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There was a period shortly after Lich King where that came back to WoW. At the start of Cataclysm, I very much played Survival Hunter for the "Sleep this enemy, freeze this enemy" flexibility. There were some mob groupings that were just **rough** if you couldn't lock them down.
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Oh god, BWL raids where there were so few mob pulls, but you had to be thoughtful about them?

That was pretty fantastic.
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I feel this way about Monster Hunter.

Yeah there's a time limit, yeah there are things to be "more optimal".... but you can just go in and bonk to your hearts content and be just fine the majority of the time.
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so like, how MMOs used to be before WoW.
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Which ones? Cause none of the ones I played.
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Mabinogi was exactly this for a very long time. And then it also fell victim to modernization.
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I've been playing Dofus, which is turn based, but it has so many positioning, health steal, and buff/summon mechanics that although i play a low DPS class, I'm very successful in battles.
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Didn’t they try this with vanilla FFXIV and it just kinda… DIDN’T work?

I mean. I’d be psyched if it could be worked out and still fun/functional, BUT…
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I would love to see that, I've had very similar design thoughts, but ultimately it comes down to the structure of games where you repeat fights. If you have to do a thing 10 times to get all the rewards you want, players will almost invariably want to do that as quickly as possible.
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There's definitely room to innovate here, but I don't think the results have much resemblance to MMOs and most RPGs that we have today.
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Thats only if the majority of the content is based around combat/damage being a main focus, which is something you decide really early on. I could see a world where there's an MMO with content about just getting from point A to point B and each class having some way to help traverse, not just attack
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I like this opinion but the closest I can think of to doing this was like New World.
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