I am a little bit more charitable than Layla in terms of how I think these people justify their own positions---I think they're lying to themselves, as much as anything else---but the practical result is the same, and nobody else is obliged to entertain their delusions.

April 09, 2026 - 21:17 UTC

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It was *maybe* possible 30 years ago (but still never got there), and a lot of people are unwilling to acknowledge that things have fundamentally and irreversibly changed since then. Not just that the leaders and attitudes on both sides are different, but the situation on the ground.
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What's the non-delusional alternative to two states?
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The non-delusional alternative is widescale ethnic cleansing one way or the other.
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Read the thread.
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There’s plenty of ideas for just solutions but they all get dismissed as delusional because anything short of “let Israel just keep doing its thing” is considered delusional
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If the goal is two states, then there needs to be a credible plan to force Israelis off enough land such as to compose a viable Palestinian state, whether that means outside military intervention or arming/training Palestinians to do it themselves.
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At this point, two states seems like a delusional solution tbh. Everyone wants all of the land, and the only way they can both have that is sharing it as equals.
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I will disagree on the "lying to oneself" component. I'd argue it is both incorrect and dangerous to assume a bigot is in "denial" that they are in the wrong. People generally do believe what they say they believe, regardless of how nonsensical or immoral it may arguably be.
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I'd argue a bigger problem is that it's hard to get invested in something that doesn't personally impact on self, or conversely, impacts oneself negatively in some way. "Not my problem/fault" isn't the worst thing ever, but it makes other issues so much worse.
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Ideology is a helluva drug
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Can we also dispense with the useless "Well if only Netanyahu were replaced..." formulation? The obstacles to meaningful progress go far beyond any one person.
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I think the people who cling to that idea want to believe that another Rabin could somehow come along and “right the ship” so to speak.

Only that ship ain’t coming back given how long Likud has been in power along with being ideologically in lock step with Rabin’s assassin.
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Depends on who we’re talking about. Liberal voters (at least those who know anything about Palestine or Israel)? Sure. Politicians? 100% lying
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Every time I engage in this conversation the argument is "I believe in two states, and Israel will come around if you just [do things that aligns Israel's incentives towards more atrocities towards Palestinians]" which is so stupid I cannot possibly interpret it as anyone's actual position
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Like the whole thing seems to be a bad faith game where a sentence is generated that justifies what israel is doing, there's no actual forward reasoning, it's all just backfitting
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I think it's largely coming from people who haven't thought beyond a surface level about that solution and/or don't have any clue about the motives Israeli leaders openly discuss to conquer territory all around them
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Do Nothing Productive And Then Complain; US Foreign Policy
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American politicians love to say "You believe in BDS? That pales in effectiveness to my strategy, working to establish a peaceful and bilateral pathway to a Two State Solution", and then do nothing to establish a peaceful and bilateral pathway to a Two State Solution.
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Some people are also ignorant of essential facts and some are not very good at reasoning clearly. But the ones who are always saying they support this then undermining it--yeah, that cries out for explanation. Maybe some people reason in bad faith but are responsible for their own self-deception.
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I mean lying to themselves is still lying, right?
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"Bring back the Ottomans to Palestine."
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Don't give Erdoğan any ideas
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