there's also the whole thing where even in the 4th century CE lots of ppl described as "arians" in the sources almost certainly did not consider themselves to be (they didn't believe "there was a time when christ was not" but also didn't adhere to the nicene creed's homoousian formulation)

April 11, 2026 - 01:46 UTC

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but bc nicenes like ambrose found "arian" a convenient smear (and they were the ones who won and wrote the histories) that can be hard to tease out, and it also turns out a lot of modern-day christian wikipedia editors do not care about the nuances
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Things that raise the hackles of devout mainline protestants were always among the most intractable wikipedia fights.
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